Why Once Saved Kept Saved is wrong!
by hanley » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:56 am
Hi, I know you "Bible Christians" belief when your saved your always saved, although the True Christians within the Catholic Church say this is wrong this is why the One,Holy Apostolic,Catholic Church of Lord Jesus Christ belief works is neccessary for salvation.
Catholics fully recognize that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for their sins and thus ``opened the gates of Heaven,'' and that salvation is a free gift which no amount of human good deeds could ever earn. Catholics receive Christ's saving and sanctifying grace, and Christ Himself, into their souls when they are baptized. Yet they also know that Christ has established certain conditions for entry into eternal happiness in Heaven--for example, receiving His true Flesh and Blood (John 6:54) and keeping the commandments (Matt. 19:17). If a Christian refuses or neglects to obey Our Lord's commands in a grave matter (that is, if he commits a mortal sin), Our Lord will not remain dwelling in his soul; and if a Christian dies in that state, having driven his Lord from his soul by serious sin, he will not be saved. As St. Paul warned the Galatians with regard to certain sins: ``They who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.'' (Gal. 5:21). It must be added that Christ will always forgive and return to a sinner who approaches Him with sincerity in the Sacrament of Penance.
Catholics follow St. Paul, who did not think that his salvation was guaranteed once and for all at the moment he first received Christ into his soul; for he wrote: ``I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.'' (I Cor. 9:27). Also: ``With fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you...'' (Phil. 2:12-13). ``And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required.'' (Luke 12:48). ``He that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.'' (Matt. 10:22). Nevertheless, Catholics realize that even the fulfilling of Our Lord's requirements for salvation is impossible without the free gift of His grace.
As you see Scripture quotes that you are not saved straight away, even St.Paul guided by the Holy Spirit said this. As quoted from above.
Also If Once saved always saved is true then that must mean Judas is saved, for he was baptized ( He was a follower of Jesus Christ at the beginning so it would been fitting that he and the apostles got baptized.)
For he baptized. (John 4:2) the apostle fills us in on the details; telling us that "...Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples)..."
Also He casted out devils, ( did not Jesus send them on their way casting out devils,healing the sick, with nothing but themselves?).
Matthew 26:24 & 25, Jesus says:
“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had NOT been born.” And Judas, who was betraying Him answered and said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” He said to him, “You have said it yourself.”
So this is the reason why once saved always saved is wrong.
Catholics believe that faith and good works are both necessary for salvation, because such is the teaching of Jesus Christ. What Our Lord demands is ``faith that worketh by charity .'' (Gal. 5 :6). Read Matthew 25:31-46, which describes the Last Judgment as being based on works of charity. The first and greatest commandment, as given by Our Lord Himself, is to love the Lord God with all one's heart, mind, soul, and strength; and the second great commandment is to love one's neighbor as oneself. (Mark 12:30-31). When the rich young man asked Our Lord what he must do to gain eternal life, Our Lord answered: ``Keep the commandments.'' (Matt. 19:17). Thus, although faith is the beginning, it is not the complete fulfillment of the will of God. Nowhere in the Bible is it written that faith alone justifies. When St. Paul wrote, ``For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law,'' he was referring to works peculiar to the old Jewish Law, and he cited circumcision as an example.
The Catholic Church does not teach that purely human good works are meritorious for salvation; such works are not meritorious for salvation, according to her teaching. Only those good works performed when a person is in the state of grace--that is, as a branch drawing its spiritual life from the Vine which is Christ (John 15:4-6)--only these good deeds work toward our salvation, and they do so only by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ. These good works, offered to God by a soul in the state of grace (i.e., free of mortal sin, with the Blessed Trinity dwelling in the soul), are thereby supernaturally meritorious because they share in the work and in the merits of Christ. Such supernatural good works will not only be rewarded by God, but are necessary for salvation.
St. Paul shows how the neglect of certain good works will send even a Christian believer to damnation: ``But if any man have not care of his own, and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.'' (1 Tim. 5:8). Our Lord tells us that if the Master (God) returns and finds His servant sinning, rather than performing works of obedience, He ``shall separate him, and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.'' (Luke 12:46).
Furthermore, Catholics know they will be rewarded in Heaven for their good works. Our Lord Himself said: ``For the Son of man . . . will render to every man according to his works.'' (Matt. 16:27). ``And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.'' (Matt. 10:42). Catholics believe, following the Apostle Paul, that ``every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor.'' (1 Cor. 3:8). ``For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name, you who have ministered, and do minister to the saints.'' (Heb. 6:10). ``I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming.'' (2 Tim. 4:7-8).
Still, Catholics know that, strictly speaking, God never owes us anything. Even after obeying all God's commandments, we must still say: ``We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do.'' (Luke 17:10). As St. Augustine (5th century) stated: ``All our good merits are wrought through grace, so that God, in crowning our merits, is crowning nothing but His gifts.''
Had St. Paul meant that faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, he would not have written: ``. . . and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.'' (1 Cor. 13:2). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the Apostle James would not have written: ``Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only'? . . . For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.'' (James 2:24-26). Or: ``What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?'' (James 2:14). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the Apostle Peter would not have written: ``Wherefore, brethren, labor the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time. For so an entrance shall be ministered to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.'' (2 Peter 1:10-11). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the primitive Christian Fathers would not have advocated good works in such powerful words. Wrote St. Irenaeus, one of the most illustrious of the primitive Christian Fathers: ``For what is the use of knowing the truth in word, while defiling the body and accomplishing the works of evil? Or what real good at all can bodily holiness do. if truth be not in the soul? For these two, faith and good works, rejoice in each other's company, and agree together and fight side by side to set man in the Presence of God.'' (Proof of the Apostolic Preaching). Justification by faith alone is a new doctrine; it was unheard of in the Christian community before the sixteenth century.
Although most of you protestants dont understand the Catholic Church as being the one and only church.
Just remember, people may accept the lies about her, spread them lies, infiltrate and persecute and descriminate her, but their is one thing you cannot do and that is prevail against her.
God Bless
kind regards - Joshua
There is but one Church in which men find salvation, just as outside the ark of Noah it was not possible for anyone to be saved.
--------St. Thomas Aquinas
Catholics fully recognize that Jesus Christ died on the Cross for their sins and thus ``opened the gates of Heaven,'' and that salvation is a free gift which no amount of human good deeds could ever earn. Catholics receive Christ's saving and sanctifying grace, and Christ Himself, into their souls when they are baptized. Yet they also know that Christ has established certain conditions for entry into eternal happiness in Heaven--for example, receiving His true Flesh and Blood (John 6:54) and keeping the commandments (Matt. 19:17). If a Christian refuses or neglects to obey Our Lord's commands in a grave matter (that is, if he commits a mortal sin), Our Lord will not remain dwelling in his soul; and if a Christian dies in that state, having driven his Lord from his soul by serious sin, he will not be saved. As St. Paul warned the Galatians with regard to certain sins: ``They who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.'' (Gal. 5:21). It must be added that Christ will always forgive and return to a sinner who approaches Him with sincerity in the Sacrament of Penance.
Catholics follow St. Paul, who did not think that his salvation was guaranteed once and for all at the moment he first received Christ into his soul; for he wrote: ``I chastise my body, and bring it into subjection: lest perhaps, when I have preached to others, I myself should become a castaway.'' (I Cor. 9:27). Also: ``With fear and trembling work out your salvation. For it is God who worketh in you...'' (Phil. 2:12-13). ``And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required.'' (Luke 12:48). ``He that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved.'' (Matt. 10:22). Nevertheless, Catholics realize that even the fulfilling of Our Lord's requirements for salvation is impossible without the free gift of His grace.
As you see Scripture quotes that you are not saved straight away, even St.Paul guided by the Holy Spirit said this. As quoted from above.
Also If Once saved always saved is true then that must mean Judas is saved, for he was baptized ( He was a follower of Jesus Christ at the beginning so it would been fitting that he and the apostles got baptized.)
For he baptized. (John 4:2) the apostle fills us in on the details; telling us that "...Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples)..."
Also He casted out devils, ( did not Jesus send them on their way casting out devils,healing the sick, with nothing but themselves?).
Matthew 26:24 & 25, Jesus says:
“The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had NOT been born.” And Judas, who was betraying Him answered and said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” He said to him, “You have said it yourself.”
So this is the reason why once saved always saved is wrong.
Catholics believe that faith and good works are both necessary for salvation, because such is the teaching of Jesus Christ. What Our Lord demands is ``faith that worketh by charity .'' (Gal. 5 :6). Read Matthew 25:31-46, which describes the Last Judgment as being based on works of charity. The first and greatest commandment, as given by Our Lord Himself, is to love the Lord God with all one's heart, mind, soul, and strength; and the second great commandment is to love one's neighbor as oneself. (Mark 12:30-31). When the rich young man asked Our Lord what he must do to gain eternal life, Our Lord answered: ``Keep the commandments.'' (Matt. 19:17). Thus, although faith is the beginning, it is not the complete fulfillment of the will of God. Nowhere in the Bible is it written that faith alone justifies. When St. Paul wrote, ``For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law,'' he was referring to works peculiar to the old Jewish Law, and he cited circumcision as an example.
The Catholic Church does not teach that purely human good works are meritorious for salvation; such works are not meritorious for salvation, according to her teaching. Only those good works performed when a person is in the state of grace--that is, as a branch drawing its spiritual life from the Vine which is Christ (John 15:4-6)--only these good deeds work toward our salvation, and they do so only by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ. These good works, offered to God by a soul in the state of grace (i.e., free of mortal sin, with the Blessed Trinity dwelling in the soul), are thereby supernaturally meritorious because they share in the work and in the merits of Christ. Such supernatural good works will not only be rewarded by God, but are necessary for salvation.
St. Paul shows how the neglect of certain good works will send even a Christian believer to damnation: ``But if any man have not care of his own, and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.'' (1 Tim. 5:8). Our Lord tells us that if the Master (God) returns and finds His servant sinning, rather than performing works of obedience, He ``shall separate him, and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.'' (Luke 12:46).
Furthermore, Catholics know they will be rewarded in Heaven for their good works. Our Lord Himself said: ``For the Son of man . . . will render to every man according to his works.'' (Matt. 16:27). ``And whosoever shall give to drink to one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.'' (Matt. 10:42). Catholics believe, following the Apostle Paul, that ``every man shall receive his own reward, according to his own labor.'' (1 Cor. 3:8). ``For God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name, you who have ministered, and do minister to the saints.'' (Heb. 6:10). ``I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith. As to the rest, there is laid up for me a crown of justice, which the Lord the just judge will render to me in that day: and not only to me, but to them also that love his coming.'' (2 Tim. 4:7-8).
Still, Catholics know that, strictly speaking, God never owes us anything. Even after obeying all God's commandments, we must still say: ``We are unprofitable servants; we have done that which we ought to do.'' (Luke 17:10). As St. Augustine (5th century) stated: ``All our good merits are wrought through grace, so that God, in crowning our merits, is crowning nothing but His gifts.''
Had St. Paul meant that faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, he would not have written: ``. . . and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.'' (1 Cor. 13:2). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the Apostle James would not have written: ``Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only'? . . . For even as the body without the spirit is dead; so also faith without works is dead.'' (James 2:24-26). Or: ``What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?'' (James 2:14). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the Apostle Peter would not have written: ``Wherefore, brethren, labor the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time. For so an entrance shall be ministered to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.'' (2 Peter 1:10-11). If faith ruled out the necessity of good works for salvation, the primitive Christian Fathers would not have advocated good works in such powerful words. Wrote St. Irenaeus, one of the most illustrious of the primitive Christian Fathers: ``For what is the use of knowing the truth in word, while defiling the body and accomplishing the works of evil? Or what real good at all can bodily holiness do. if truth be not in the soul? For these two, faith and good works, rejoice in each other's company, and agree together and fight side by side to set man in the Presence of God.'' (Proof of the Apostolic Preaching). Justification by faith alone is a new doctrine; it was unheard of in the Christian community before the sixteenth century.
Although most of you protestants dont understand the Catholic Church as being the one and only church.
Just remember, people may accept the lies about her, spread them lies, infiltrate and persecute and descriminate her, but their is one thing you cannot do and that is prevail against her.
God Bless
kind regards - Joshua
There is but one Church in which men find salvation, just as outside the ark of Noah it was not possible for anyone to be saved.
--------St. Thomas Aquinas
- hanley
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:26 pm
by SolusChristus » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:32 am
Your idea of the Church is wrong.
The Church is the entire body of believers, regardless of denomination.
Baptism does not save, genuine faith saves. After faith is received, come all the fruits of it, repentance, baptism, etc.
They had faith, they had works, they cast out demons and prophesied, yet were not saved.
He who began a good work in you will finish it. Faith is a gift from God, once you have the saving faith, nothing can take you away from it. You will be disgusted of sin, you will despise it and you will love righteousness, despite of your inability to fully practice it.
The Church is the entire body of believers, regardless of denomination.
Also If Once saved always saved is true then that must mean Judas is saved, for he was baptized ( He was a follower of Jesus Christ at the beginning so it would been fitting that he and the apostles got baptized.)
For he baptized. (John 4:2) the apostle fills us in on the details; telling us that "...Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples)..."
Also He casted out devils, ( did not Jesus send them on their way casting out devils,healing the sick, with nothing but themselves?).
Baptism does not save, genuine faith saves. After faith is received, come all the fruits of it, repentance, baptism, etc.
Matthew 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They had faith, they had works, they cast out demons and prophesied, yet were not saved.
1 Peter 1:5
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
He who began a good work in you will finish it. Faith is a gift from God, once you have the saving faith, nothing can take you away from it. You will be disgusted of sin, you will despise it and you will love righteousness, despite of your inability to fully practice it.
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SolusChristus - Site Admin
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:07 am
by hanley » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:57 am
No my friend you are wrong, very wrong in deed do not be blinded, by what others say to you.
[quote="SolusChristus"]Your idea of the Church is wrong.
The Church is the entire body of believers, regardless of denomination.
1. Since Christ roundly condemned interdenominationalism (``And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.'' Mark 3:25), Catholic Christians cannot except that Our Lord, would allow his church to be divded therefore we cannot have "denominations" Our Lord even said ``There shall be one fold and one shepherd. Remember this ONE fold, believing in the same faith, practicing the divine traditions passed down by the prophets and apostles. Just as the ONe,Holy,Catholic,Apostolic Church confesses.
Now lets look at the churches
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517. ( Luther broke his vows)
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
( Jesus condemned another marriage, but 1 marriage only therefore the Pope was being faithful towards his master )
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
I Suggest you listen to Our Lady's messages from Bayside - www.tldm.org
[quote="SolusChristus"]Your idea of the Church is wrong.
The Church is the entire body of believers, regardless of denomination.
1. Since Christ roundly condemned interdenominationalism (``And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.'' Mark 3:25), Catholic Christians cannot except that Our Lord, would allow his church to be divded therefore we cannot have "denominations" Our Lord even said ``There shall be one fold and one shepherd. Remember this ONE fold, believing in the same faith, practicing the divine traditions passed down by the prophets and apostles. Just as the ONe,Holy,Catholic,Apostolic Church confesses.
Now lets look at the churches
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517. ( Luther broke his vows)
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
( Jesus condemned another marriage, but 1 marriage only therefore the Pope was being faithful towards his master )
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as 'Church of the Nazarene," "Pentecostal Gospel." "Holiness Church," "Pilgrim Holiness Church," "Jehovah's Witnesses," your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
I Suggest you listen to Our Lady's messages from Bayside - www.tldm.org
- hanley
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:26 pm
by SolusChristus » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:13 pm
And if you're Catholic, your religion is founded by Constantine I in 313 A.D. 
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SolusChristus - Site Admin
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by hanley » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:34 pm
Nope he was just the first Christian emperor who turned the pagan Roman empire, to bow down before the Lord, he even professed that it was the Christian God, who helped him into power, as soon as his Mother turned Christians he turned Christian. ( Research if you dont take my word ).
You bring no direct evidence, that the Catholic Church was made under him.
Also since the early church father professed the Catholic Faith.
If you do not understand who the early church Fathers are here is a good writing.. http://www.catholicbible101.com/theearl ... athers.htm
Again, you bring no bible scripture that rightly condemns the Catholic Church, because Catholic truly understand scripture because the Holy Spirit guided us into the truth. Aftrerall we did have the authority to put it together.
You may not like the Church, because the Devil has covered your eye's with lies, afterall he is the father of lies.
But we have stood strong for 2000 years, holding the banner faithful and true.
You bring no direct evidence, that the Catholic Church was made under him.
Also since the early church father professed the Catholic Faith.
If you do not understand who the early church Fathers are here is a good writing.. http://www.catholicbible101.com/theearl ... athers.htm
Again, you bring no bible scripture that rightly condemns the Catholic Church, because Catholic truly understand scripture because the Holy Spirit guided us into the truth. Aftrerall we did have the authority to put it together.
You may not like the Church, because the Devil has covered your eye's with lies, afterall he is the father of lies.
But we have stood strong for 2000 years, holding the banner faithful and true.
- hanley
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:26 pm
by Abiding Grace » Thu May 13, 2010 1:38 am
hanley,
Trying to prove Catholicism, by quoting Catholicism isn't productive. I simply do not accept the magesterium. Jesus said he would leave us with the comforter... you know Him, yes? We generally call the Comforter the Holy Spirit. He didn't say anything about leaving us a long line of very sinful men to corrupt the gospel with the indulgences, etc.
The church of the Savior is indeed in the hearts and minds of true believers. My Pastor used to always say that being a Christian means "Jesus PLUS NOTHING"! We are saved by his shed blood when we believe upon his name and the sacrificial grace he extended to us. No good works, no saying of a rosary, no looking for a place called Purgatory, and certainly not by believing that the Holy Spirit is the SPOUSE of Mary! I do not accept Papal Authority and evidently there are a whole bunch of Catholics that don't either because if they did, your Pope's wouldn't have to keep apologizing for the actions of your organization! You can't say the Pope is infallible if he apologizes. That implies that some error or wrong was perpetrated upon someone. The One True Church who supposedly has apostolic authority would always agree on truth and not keep redefining truth.
Of course, Christians should do good things as a result of their salvation, not the other way around. When the Holy Spirit is residing within us, our lives should show some of the evidences of the fruit of the spirit as described in Galatians 5.
The Bible says repeatedly that every sin will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I read somewhere that Pope John Paul II was still not sure he would go to heaven as he approached his own passing. How sad that a man who clearly loved Jesus and served him all of his adult life, still had no assurance of his salvation.
I'm sorry my friend. That is not the God I know. He does not torture me endlessly everytime I make a misstep and sin, which I still do. He does not wag his finger at me and say "Be good or else"!
If that works for you and you are comfortable with it, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's not Biblical.
I will pray for you.
Trying to prove Catholicism, by quoting Catholicism isn't productive. I simply do not accept the magesterium. Jesus said he would leave us with the comforter... you know Him, yes? We generally call the Comforter the Holy Spirit. He didn't say anything about leaving us a long line of very sinful men to corrupt the gospel with the indulgences, etc.
The church of the Savior is indeed in the hearts and minds of true believers. My Pastor used to always say that being a Christian means "Jesus PLUS NOTHING"! We are saved by his shed blood when we believe upon his name and the sacrificial grace he extended to us. No good works, no saying of a rosary, no looking for a place called Purgatory, and certainly not by believing that the Holy Spirit is the SPOUSE of Mary! I do not accept Papal Authority and evidently there are a whole bunch of Catholics that don't either because if they did, your Pope's wouldn't have to keep apologizing for the actions of your organization! You can't say the Pope is infallible if he apologizes. That implies that some error or wrong was perpetrated upon someone. The One True Church who supposedly has apostolic authority would always agree on truth and not keep redefining truth.
Of course, Christians should do good things as a result of their salvation, not the other way around. When the Holy Spirit is residing within us, our lives should show some of the evidences of the fruit of the spirit as described in Galatians 5.
The Bible says repeatedly that every sin will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
I read somewhere that Pope John Paul II was still not sure he would go to heaven as he approached his own passing. How sad that a man who clearly loved Jesus and served him all of his adult life, still had no assurance of his salvation.
I'm sorry my friend. That is not the God I know. He does not torture me endlessly everytime I make a misstep and sin, which I still do. He does not wag his finger at me and say "Be good or else"!
If that works for you and you are comfortable with it, that's perfectly fine with me, but it's not Biblical.
I will pray for you.
- Abiding Grace
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:42 pm
- Location: Arizona
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