The Early Church Fathers believed in Roman Catholic Doctrine

[OneTrueChurch]

The Early Church Fathers believed in Baptismal Regeneration. That we are Born again (John 3:5) in Baptism

Justin Martyr

"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]" (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).

Irenaeus

"‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’" (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).


Cyprian of Carthage

"[When] they receive also the baptism of the Church . . . then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God . . . since it is written, ‘Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’" (Letters 71[72]:1 [A.D. 253]).


Cyril of Jerusalem
". And he says, ‘Unless a man be born again,’ and he adds the words ‘of water and of the Spirit,’ ‘he cannot enter the kingdom of God.’ He that is baptized with water, but is not found worthy of the Spirit, does not receive the grace in perfection. Nor, if a man be virtuous in his deeds, but does not receive the seal by means of the water, shall he enter the kingdom of heaven. A bold saying, but not mine; for it is Jesus who has declared it" (Catechetical Lectures 3:4 [A.D. 350]).


Basil the Great

"This then is what it means to be ‘born again of water and Spirit’: Just as our dying is effected in the water [Rom. 6:3; Col. 2:12–13], our living is wrought through the Spirit. In three immersions and an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water, but from the Spirit’s presence there" (The Holy Spirit 15:35 [A.D. 375]).


Ambrose of Milan

"The Church was redeemed at the price of Christ’s blood. Jew or Greek, it makes no difference; but if he has believed, he must circumcise himself from his sins [in baptism (Col. 2:11–12)] so that he can be saved . . . for no one ascends into the kingdom of heaven except through the sacrament of baptism.
. . . ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God’" (Abraham 2:11:79–84 [A.D. 387]).

Gregory of Nyssa

"[In] the birth by water and the Spirit, [Jesus] himself led the way in this birth, drawing down upon the water, by his own baptism, the Holy Spirit; so that in all things he became the firstborn of those who are spiritually born again, and gave the name of brethren to those who partook in a birth like to his own by water and the Spirit" (Against Eunomius 2:8 [A.D. 382]).


John Chrysostom

"[N]o one can enter into the kingdom of heaven except he be regenerated through water and the Spirit, and he who does not eat the flesh of the Lord and drink his blood is excluded from eternal life, and if all these things are accomplished only by means of those holy hands, I mean the hands of the priest, how will any one, without these, be able to escape the fire of hell, or to win those crowns which are reserved for the victorious? These [priests] truly are they who are entrusted with the pangs of spiritual travail and the birth which comes through baptism: by their means we put on Christ, and are buried with the Son of God, and become members of that blessed head [the Mystical Body of Christ]" (The Priesthood 3:5–6 [A.D. 387]).

Augustine

"It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that infant is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, ‘Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents’ or ‘by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him,’ but, ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit.’ The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam" (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 412]).

They also believed in the Real Physical Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Ignatius of Antioch

"Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).


Justin Martyr

"We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration [i.e., has received baptism] and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).


Irenaeus

"He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).



Clement of Alexandria
’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children" (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).



Hippolytus

"‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper [i.e.,
the Last Supper]" (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

"Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul" (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).

Ambrose of Milan

"Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ" (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).


Augustine

"What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction" (ibid., 272).

[Zach Kueker]

Glenn,

Is the above post a copy and paste job?

[OneTrueChurch]

Glenn,

Is the above post a copy and paste job?

my fault

http://www.catholic.com/library/Born_Ag ... aptism.asp

http://www.catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

you can read the full writings at ccel.org or you can read any collection of the anti-nicene and post nicene fathers

[SolusChristus]

Okay so they believed in Baptismal regeneration and the Eucharist.

Where is the Hail Mary, the Intercession of the Saints, Purgatory, Limbo (which was denounced by Pope Benedict or John Paul, I don't remember, saying that people unable to receive Christ who died, babies, retarded people, etc, will automatically go to Heaven instead of Limbo), where is the Pope's authority, the Pope's Ex-Cathedra, the veneration of saints, the importance of keeping relics, the nuns, monks, confession boxes... I could go on.

Until you have presented us with evidence of the above doctrine from verifiable sources, only then will I accept that SOME early church fathers, uninspired men, fallible, vulnerable to false doctrine.

“’Sirs, what must I do to be saved?’ So they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.’” (Acts 16:30-31)

Baptism comes after salvation, as an outward sign and a symbolic washing away of sins, nothing more, nothing less.

[StutteringDave]

I wonder what Zack Kueker thinks about this, since he considers everyone who believes in baptismal regeneration to be "not saved".

[Zach Kueker]

We've also got to remember that the Eucharist that Romanism practices is not the same as the Eucharist as was practiced by the early Christian church. Rome has hijacked much of what Christianity practices and has tainted many of the sacraments.

[T. Scott Morgan]

OneTrueChurch, I am assuming that you, like most who parrot this argument around, have not first fully read the documents quoted from. Considering that at least several of these qoutations are pulled out of context, I wonder if you would still feel the way you do after reading them in context. Do you think you could quote for us a larger portion of these excerpts? This shouldn't take much time if you yourself have studied this argument enough to endorse it.

[TristanCross]

Ah, the context card. I've read them in context, and I affirm them.

[OneTrueChurch]

OneTrueChurch, I am assuming that you, like most who parrot this argument around, have not first fully read the documents quoted from. Considering that at least several of these qoutations are pulled out of context, I wonder if you would still feel the way you do after reading them in context. Do you think you could quote for us a larger portion of these excerpts? This shouldn't take much time if you yourself have studied this argument enough to endorse it.

I have read them in context. They clearly teach the catholic position. i'm sorry that the early church fatehrs did not hold to your protestant views.

[Zach Kueker]

OneTrueChurch, I am assuming that you, like most who parrot this argument around, have not first fully read the documents quoted from. Considering that at least several of these qoutations are pulled out of context, I wonder if you would still feel the way you do after reading them in context. Do you think you could quote for us a larger portion of these excerpts? This shouldn't take much time if you yourself have studied this argument enough to endorse it.

I have read them in context. They clearly teach the catholic position. i'm sorry that the early church fatehrs did not hold to your protestant views.

Weak response, Glenn. Can you respect Scott Morgan's request and go into a little more detail, please?

[OneTrueChurch]

OneTrueChurch, I am assuming that you, like most who parrot this argument around, have not first fully read the documents quoted from. Considering that at least several of these qoutations are pulled out of context, I wonder if you would still feel the way you do after reading them in context. Do you think you could quote for us a larger portion of these excerpts? This shouldn't take much time if you yourself have studied this argument enough to endorse it.

I have read them in context. They clearly teach the catholic position. i'm sorry that the early church fatehrs did not hold to your protestant views.

Weak response, Glenn. Can you respect Scott Morgan's request and go into a little more detail, please?

There is nothing ambiguous at all in these quotes, i don't see how somebody can accuse me of taking them out of context.

But, ok if you want to see the full documents i'll provide a few.

Here are the citation for the Fathers when speaking on Baptismal Regeneration. I will post the links to them speaking on the Eucharist tomorrow.

Justin Martyr

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... ology.html

scroll down to the section titled "Chapter LXI Christian Baptism"

Ireneus
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0134.htm

scroll down to 34

Cyprian of Carthage

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050671.htm
scroll to 1st paragraph

Cyril of Jerusalem

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310103.htm

start at #4 and read to the end of the article

Ambrose of Milan

couldn't find the exact quote, but you can see him sepaking on baptism here:
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3405.htm
scroll to chapter 4 read #19-21

Gregory of Nyssa

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/290102.htm
scroll down to chapter 8 read the long 1st paragraph

John Crysostom
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/19223.htm
scroll down to paragraph 5-6

Augustine
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102098.htm
scroll down to #2

[TristanCross]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/



Remember, to read the writings of the early church is to cease to be a Protestant.

[hanley]

Hi, this reply is to SolusChristi it may be long but worth reading on the Catholic view

1. Mary & Saints, The intercession - When Catholics pray to Mary and the other saints in Heaven they are not by passing Christ, whom they acknowledge as the sole Mediator between God and man. They are going to Christ through Mary and the other saints. They are asking Mary and other saints to intercede for them before the throne of Christ in Heaven. ``For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.'' (James 5:16). How much more availing is the unceasing prayer of the sinless Mother of Our Lord Jesus Christ! St. Paul asked his fellow Christians to intercede for him: ``Brethren, pray for us.'' (2 Thess. 3:1). And again: ``I beseech you therefore, brethren, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the charity of the Holy Ghost, that you help me in your prayers for me to God...'' (Rom. 15:30). Christ must particularly approve of our going to Him through Mary, His Blessed Mother, because He chose to come to us through her. And at Cana, He performed His first miracle after a word from His Mother. (John 2:2-11).
It is clear in Sacred Scripture that the saints in Heaven will intercede for us before the throne of Christ if they are petitioned in prayer (Apoc. or Rev. 8:3-4), and it is clear in the records of primitive Christianity that the first Christians eagerly sought their intercession. Wrote St. John Chrysostom in the fourth century: ``When thou perceivest that God is chastening thee, fly not to His enemies, but to His friends, the martyrs, the saints, and those who were pleasing to Him, and who have great power.'' If the saints have such power with God, how much more His own Mother.


2. Purgatory - The main body of Christians have always believed in the existence of a place between Heaven and Hell where souls go to be punished for lesser sins and to repay the debt of temporal punishment for sins which have been forgiven. Even after Moses was forgiven by God, he was still punished for his sin. (2 Kg. or 2 Sam. 12:13-14). The primitive Church Fathers regarded the doctrine of Purgatory as one of the basic tenets of the Christian faith. St. Augustine, one of the greatest doctors of the Church, said the doctrine of Purgatory ``has been received from the Fathers and it is observed by the Universal Church.'' True, the word ``Purgatory'' does not appear in the Bible, but a place where lesser sins are purged away and the soul is saved ``yet so as by fire,'' is mentioned. (1 Cor. 3:15). Also, the Bible distinguishes between those who enter Heaven straightaway, calling them ``the church of the firstborn'' (Heb. 12:23), and those who enter after having undergone a purgation, calling them ``the spirits of the just made perfect.'' (Heb. 12:23). Christ Himself stated: ``Amen I say to thee, thou shalt not go out from thence till thou repay the last farthing.'' (Matt. 5 :26). And: ``Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment.'' (Matt. 12:36). These are obviously references to Purgatory. Further, the Second Book of Machabees (which was dropped from the Scriptures by the Protestant Reformers) says: ``It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.'' (2 Mach. 12:46). Ancient Christian tomb inscriptions from the second and third centuries frequently contain an appeal for prayers for the dead. In fact, the custom of praying for the dead--which is meaningless if there is no Purgatory--was universal among Christians for the fifteen centuries preceding the Protestant Reformation.
Furthermore, ordinary justice calls for a place of purgation between Heaven and Hell. Take our own courts of justice, for example. For major crimes a person is executed or sentenced to life imprisonment (Hell); for minor crimes a person is sentenced to temporary imprisonment for punishment and rehabilitation (Purgatory); for no crime at all a person is rewarded with the blessing of free citizenship (Heaven). If a thief steals some money, then regrets his deed and asks the victim for forgiveness, it is quite just for the victim to forgive him yet still insist on restitution. God, who is infinitely just, insists on holy restitution. This is made either in this life, by doing penance (Matt. 3:2; Luke 3:8, 13:3; Apoc. 3:2-3, 19), or in Purgatory .

Also, what Christian is there who, despite his faith in Christ and his sincere attempts to be Christlike, does not find sin and worldliness still in his heart? ``For in many things we all offend.'' (James 3:2). Yet ``there shall not enter into it [the new Jerusalem, Heaven] anything defiled.'' (Apoc. or Rev. 21:27). In Purgatory the soul is mercifully purified of all stain; there God carries out the work of spiritual purification which most Christians neglected and resisted on earth. It is important to remember that Catholics do not believe that Christ simply covers over their sinful souls, like covering a manure heap with a blanket of snow (Martin Luther's description of God's forgiveness). Rather, Christ insists that we be truly holy and sinless to the core of our souls. ``Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.'' (Matt. 5:48). This growth in sinlessness--in Christian virtue and holiness--is of course the work of an entire lifetime (and is possible only through the grace of God). With many this cleansing is completed only in Purgatory. If there is no Purgatory, but only Heaven for the perfect and Hell for the imperfect, then the vast majority of us are hoping in vain for life eternal in Heaven.



3. The Pope - the word ``Pope'' doesn't appear in the Bible--but then neither do the words ``Trinity,'' ``Incarnation,'' ``Ascension'' and ``Bible'' appear in the Bible. However, they are referred to by other names. The Bible, for example, is referred to as ``Scripture.'' The Pope, which means head bishop of the Church, is referred to as the ``rock'' of the Church, or as the ``shepherd'' of the Church. Christ used that terminology when He appointed the Apostle Peter the first head bishop of His Church, saying: ``Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona . . . Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church.'' (Matt. 16:17-19). ``There shall be one fold and one shepherd.'' (John 10:16). ``Feed my lambs... feed my sheep.'' (John 21:15-17). The words ``rock'' and ``shepherd'' must apply to Peter, and they must distinguish him as the head Apostle, otherwise Christ's statements are so ambiguous as to be meaningless. Certainly the other Apostles understood that Peter had authority from Christ to lead the Church, for they gave him the presiding place every time they assembled in council (Acts 1:15, 5:1-10), and they placed his name first every time they listed the names of the Apostles. (Matt. 10:2, Mark 3:16, Luke 6:13-14, Acts 1:13).
In addition, there is the testimony of the Church Fathers. In the second century St. Hegessipus compiled a list of Popes to the time of Anicetus (eleventh Pope) which contained the name of St. Peter as first. Early in the third century the historian Caius wrote that Pope Victor was ``the thirteenth Bishop of Rome from Peter.'' In the middle of the third century St. Cyprian related that Cornelius (twenty-first Pope) ``mounted the lofty summit of the priesthood . . . the place of Peter.'' Even Protestant historians have attested to Peter's role as first Bishop of Rome, first Pope of the Catholic Church. Wrote the eminent Protestant historian Cave in his Historia Literaria: ``That Peter was at Rome, and held the See there for some time, we fearlessly affirm with the whole multitude of the ancients.'' Hence the source of the Pope's authority to rule over the Catholic Church is quite obvious: It was given him by none other than Jesus Christ--by God Himself.

[hanley]

4. Confession - Catholics confess their sins to priests because-- as it is clearly stated in Sacred Scripture--God in the Person of Jesus Christ authorized the priests of His Church to hear confessions and empowered them to forgive sins in His Name. To the Apostles, the first priests of His Church, Christ said: ``Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.... Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.'' (John 20:21-23). Then again: ``Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.'' (Matt. 18:18). In other words, Catholics confess their sins to priests because priests are God's duly authorized agents in the world, representing Him in all matters pertaining to the ways and means of attaining eternal salvation. When Catholics confess their sins to a priest they are, in reality, confessing their sins to God, for God hears their confessions and it is He who, in the final analysis, does the forgiving. If their confessions are not sincere, their sins are not forgiven.
Furthermore, Catholics do confess their sins directly to God as Protestants do: Catholics are taught to make an act of contrition at least every night before retiring, to ask God to forgive them their sins of that day. Catholics are also taught to say this same prayer of contrition if they should have the misfortune to commit a serious sin (called a ``mortal sin'' by Catholics).

5. The Nuns, Monks - Just are the parish priest evangelize to the faithful flock of Jesus Christ within the Catholic church, So do the monks and nuns, although some may take up life of prayer and pennence for the glory of God. Some monks may become Franciscan Friars who live within the city's like New York preaching the Gospel and reducing crime rate in cities. Although some may become exorcist and fight the devil head on. Just like the army works with different sects within it, so does the body of christ within his church.

6. The importance of keeping relics - They is no importance really, although some Saints bodies have not been corrupt or rotten away after 300 years+ etc, you can see the power of God through these relics and bodies. Many miracles have occured through them, if wish to research it.

7. One True Church - Catholics believe that theirs is the one true Church of Jesus Christ, firstly, because theirs is the only Christian Church that goes back in history to the time of Christ; secondly, because theirs is the only Christian Church which possesses the invincible unity, the intrinsic holiness, the continual universality and the indisputable apostolicity which Christ said would distinguish His true Church; and thirdly, because the Apostles and primitive Church Fathers, who certainly were members of Christ's true Church, all professed membership in this same Catholic Church (See Apostles' Creed and the Primitive Christian letters). Wrote Ignatius of Antioch, illustrious Church Father of the first century: ``Where the Bishop is, there let the multitude of believers be; even as where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church.'' Our Lord said: ``There shall be one fold and one shepherd, yet it is well known that the various Christian denominations cannot agree on what Christ actually taught. Since Christ roundly condemned interdenominationalism (``And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.'' Mark 3:25), Catholics cannot believe that He would ever sanction it in His Church.
The Only Churches who have Apostolic succession is the Catholic + Orthodox church, although the Orthodox church as everything what will distinguish Christ's church, their lack the throne of Peter, what as been passed down by Pope succession. When Jesus gave Peter the Keys of the Kingdom . ``I will give (o thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven.'' (Matt. 16:19).
Although the Orthodox is 50% in communion with the Catholic Church their except the primacy of the pope, but not the authority and this is why they not the true church.
Although Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict have frequently said their wish the church to breath with both lungs again. You have many Orthodox churches accepting the authority of the Pope these days Thank God.

8. Why the church is NEVER wrong in matter of "FAITH ONLY" Ex Cathedra - The doctrine of Papal Infallibility does not mean the Pope is always right in all his personal teachings. Catholics are quite aware that, despite his great learning, the Pope is very much a human being and therefore liable to commit human error. On some subjects, like sports and manufacturing, his judgment is liable to be very faulty. The doctrine simply means that the Pope is divinely protected from error when, acting in his official capacity as chief shepherd of the Catholic fold, he promulgates a decision which is binding on the conscience of all Catholics throughout the world. In other words, his infallibility is limited to his specialty--the Faith of Jesus Christ.
In order for the Pope to be infallible on a particular statement, however, four conditions must apply: 1) he must be speaking ex cathedra . . . that is, ``from the Chair'' of Peter, or in other words, officially, as head of the entire Church; 2) the decision must be for the whole Church; 3) it must be on a matter of faith or morals; 4) the Pope must have the intention of making a final decision on a teaching of faith or morals, so that it is to be held by all the faithful. It must be interpretive, not originative; the Pope has no authority to originate new doctrine. He is not the author of revelation--only its guardian and expounder. He has no power to distort a single word of Scripture, or change one iota of divine tradition. His infallibility is limited strictly to the province of doctrinal interpretation, and it is used quite rarely. It is used in order to clarify, to ``define,'' some point of the ancient Christian tradition. It is the infallibility of which Christ spoke when He said to Peter, the first Pope: ``I will give (o thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven.'' (Matt. 16:19). Certainly Christ would not have admonished His followers to ``hear the church'' (Matt. 18:17) without somehow making certain that what they heard was the truth--without somehow making the teaching magisterium of His Church infallible.

For a complete understanding of the Pope's infallibility, however, one more thing should be known: His ex cathedra decisions are not the result of his own private deliberations. They are the result of many years--sometimes hundreds of years--of consultation with the other bishops and theologians of the Church. He is, in effect, voicing the belief of the whole Church. His infallibility is not his own private endowment, but rather an endowment of the entire Mystical Body of Christ. Indeed, the Pope's hands are tied with regard to the changing of Christian doctrine. No Pope has ever used his infallibility to change, add, or subtract any Christian teaching; this is because Our Lord promised to be with His Church until the end of the world. (Matt. 28:20). Protestant denominations, on the other hand, feel free to change their doctrines. For example, all Protestant denominations once taught that contraception was gravely sinful; but since 1930, when the Church of England's Lambeth Conference decided contraception was no longer a sin, virtually all Protestant ministers in the world have accepted this human decision and changed their teaching.

Hope you no longer become arrogant and accept the truth, that the Universal church is for our sakes only. god bless brother keep strong in faith.

[Eliyahu]

The Early Church Fathers believed in Baptismal Regeneration. That we are Born again (John 3:5) in Baptism

@ OneTrueChurch ~ I would say that the Early Church Fathers would be those individuals in Acts 2:41. So then why are you quoting RCC fathers who've distorted the truth of Scripture and why are you calling them Early Church Fathers? When you start off publishing false truths it really makes the remaining argument mute.

I will agree though that those preaching truth should not preach contrary to what Scripture stipulates. There are only examples in Scripture where people were anxious to be baptized or traveled distances to be baptized. Scripture says be baptized so be baptized. Anything further is preaching a different doctrine. Why would any believer waste energy trying to defend whether it's required or not. We should not bother with these types of divisive doctrines. We should preach to all be baptized as Scripture reinforces. It is then up to The Spirit whether or not to place that desire in ones heart.